Curse

Nymph of Meliai · Feb 26, 2010, 02:40 PM // 14:40

There are two classes that increasingly find it difficult to get into HM groups - they are not necros and rits. So why have necros and rits been given a buff when these two classes have little difficulty in getting into a group. Were it not for my guild that favours come as you please balanced builds, my ranger would struggle to get into any group.

The mesmer is an under-used character but in my alliance the mesmer has little difficulty getting into a group with some powerful and useful skills.

What is needed?

Ranger: The easiest way of boosting the ranger is simply to remove the conditions feature from barrage. Barrage is the main aoe skill that a ranger can use. Unfortunately, when using barrage, it makes virtually all the other skill slots practically useless in terms of ranger skills - they instead tend to be filled with skills such as splinter weapon, and the various EotN skills. Alternatively boosting the stance skills of the ranger would make it a better option for tanking, especially with the elemental damage reduction that rangers have.
New skills could help, more aoe options would be useful - perhaps exploding arrows that do not scatter or cause substantial damage equivalent to other aoe skills that eles, necros and mesmers possess (i.e. above 60 damage).
Or something done to make traps more useful.
The alternative is to bolster the energy saving feature that rangers have to make them better options as casters - but this gets away from the point of making ranger skills more useful.
Finally, in keeping with the storyline of GW, the ranger could be given more healing type skills - woodlore etc. that provide an attractive alternative to ritualists and monks... for example how about group troll, group instant condition removal with added heal, camouflage that allows the group to pass any foe without creating agro... and so on.

Dervish: The problem with the Dervish is the lack of energy to skill ratio. If making a dervish skill only build, then it works quite well until you die. -15%dp will make most of the key skills useless, -30%dp will render the skill bar useless. Either the energy needs to be raised or the skills need to be adjusted so that they are not so energy draining.
An alternative would be to introduce a skill that reduces energy usage when under the influence of dp. If this skill is extended to the entire party then it would make the dervish as a party member a little more attractive. The dervish is supposed to have a direct link with the gods, so such a skill would fit in well with the GW storyline.
The biggest problem is that the dervish is seen as a warrior and as such is given a similar energy bar but without any of the adrenaline skills. There are lots of attractive dervish skills but unfortunately most derv only skill bars do not have the energy to use them.

Note that this is a PvE discussion about making these two classes and their own class skills more attractive to groups seeking members.

Shayne Hawke · Feb 26, 2010, 02:51 PM // 14:51

I'm fairly convinced that the reason that class XYZ is not seeing play in PuGs is because some classes have stupidly powerful PvE builds, and not that other classes have particularly poor builds.

Marverick · Feb 26, 2010, 03:10 PM // 15:10

Barrage - Elite Preparation. For 0...30 seconds, you attack 33% faster, and whenever you attack a target, you fire an additional arrow at that target and up to six adjacent foes. 25e, 25 recharge.

Um HM casters need to stop casting on crack so they can actually be interrupted. Without BHA.

Lightning Reflexes should have its recharge lowered to 15s in PvE to be a more maintainable IAS. Alternatively revert Flail for PvE.

There needs to be something akin to a Scavenger's Arrow or something in the marksmanship line. Body Shot is too unwieldy.

And a lot of bow attacks are just useless.

scratchdude · Feb 26, 2010, 03:31 PM // 15:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

I'm fairly convinced that the reason that class XYZ is not seeing play in PuGs is because some classes have stupidly powerful PvE builds, and not that other classes have particularly poor builds.

Agreed. But as a Dervish player, I think e-management for a derv is just unefficient. The only good build I have successfully used is a ZV build, with which I'll never run out of energy.
Anyway, dervishes seem very underestimated in PUGs. True, many classes with overpowered PVE builds will get picked up before. But let's face it, a derv can be very efficient in terms of dmg, just not to the same extent.

Shayne Hawke · Feb 26, 2010, 03:36 PM // 15:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marverick

Barrage - Elite Preparation. For 0...30 seconds, you attack 33% faster, and whenever you attack a target, you fire an additional arrow at that target and up to six adjacent foes. 25e, 25 recharge.

I like the sound of that idea, but I can't imagine how hellish that would make facing R-spike.

The Josip · Feb 26, 2010, 03:39 PM // 15:39

Now now, don't be picky. ANet wants you to play Necro and Rt in PvE, and to stop using Ele and Mesmers.

So don't make it difficult for them

Just stop playing the other char and like me create new char.

ps: Anyone starting Factions char? Could use some company

IronSheik · Feb 26, 2010, 03:47 PM // 15:47

Sorry OP, your reasoning and suggestions are bad.

Who says rangers were meant for AoE because they have one aoe elite? Rangers healing...? Then warriors should have group healing right? Don't forget necros, and eles, and mesmers, they want to heal too.

Camo to run past groups...see no point whatsoever

And dervishes have no energy and 30% dp makes them bad? Wouldn't 30% hinder anyone? And if you have it in the first place, you are bad.

Dervishes have plenty of energy skills, zealous vow is probably their best elite for DPSing, attacker's insight is two free energy attacks, not to mention only attack skills that give energy on return.

The Josip · Feb 26, 2010, 04:01 PM // 16:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronSheik

Dervishes have plenty of energy skills, zealous vow is probably their best elite for DPSing, attacker's insight is two free energy attacks, not to mention only attack skills that give energy on return.

We can easily see you don't play Dervish.

Unless you're using Zealous Vow you're going to have energy problems as dervish. Yes, you can put few useless skills on your skillbar so you can actually use properly the other few - or - you can just stop using dervish and switch to, I dunno, A/D to do it better with no energy problems.

Kosar The Cruel · Feb 26, 2010, 04:02 PM // 16:02

My main is a Dervish and the main problem I find is Mysticism. The attribute bonus would work much better if you gained energy upon casting an enchant, weather it be on yourself or another, rather then gain energy when an enchant ends on you. This way skills like Watchful Intervention would be more useful in a group.

IronSheik · Feb 26, 2010, 04:04 PM // 16:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Josip

We can easily see you don't play Dervish.

Unless you're using Zealous Vow you're going to have energy problems as dervish. Yes, you can put few useless skills on your skillbar so you can actually use properly the other few - or - you can just stop using dervish and switch to, I dunno, A/D to do it better with no energy problems.

My dervish has over half of my 5000 hours.

I can see you bring too many 10 energy skills without return, or can't weapon swap to a zealous when hitting three enemies. Even zealous renewal provides ample energy return with no use of attunements or radiants.

Khaal · Feb 26, 2010, 04:13 PM // 16:13

I can't speak for the dervish, as I just haven't played mine enough, but the problem with Rangers in HM isn't the Ranger, it's PUGs. Now, before someone gets their panties in a bunch, I'm not saying that PUG players are this, that or the other thing. What I'm saying is that when forming a PUG, we have to think of what we need in the group. Most of the time, other classes are in the forefront of our minds when considering who to bring. (And on that note, in areas where interrupts are needed, my Ranger gets picked up pretty easily.)

My Ranger has several HM viable builds. I generally don't use barrage and if you're looking for a barrage like AOE skill, I'd recommend running R/E with Incendiary Arrows, Conjure Flame and Ignite Arrows (I use "I am the Strongest" as well). Most of the time that's what I use in HM, but I also have a BHA, a BM and even an SOS. Plenty of options for a Ranger, you just have to be patient and persistent while looking for a PUG.

Popeye1906 · Feb 26, 2010, 04:16 PM // 16:16

Why buff pve rangers skills? they are much better at using other profession's weapons then when they are wielding a bow.

Fap · Feb 26, 2010, 05:23 PM // 17:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marverick

Barrage - Elite Preparation. For 0...30 seconds, you attack 33% faster, and whenever you attack a target, you fire an additional arrow at that target and up to six adjacent foes. 25e, 25 recharge.

Um HM casters need to stop casting on crack so they can actually be interrupted. Without BHA.

Lightning Reflexes should have its recharge lowered to 15s in PvE to be a more maintainable IAS. Alternatively revert Flail for PvE.

There needs to be something akin to a Scavenger's Arrow or something in the marksmanship line. Body Shot is too unwieldy.

And a lot of bow attacks are just useless.

YES!

12 chars

Marverick · Feb 26, 2010, 05:28 PM // 17:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

I like the sound of that idea, but I can't imagine how hellish that would make facing R-spike.

Make it only occur on auto-attacks then. So it doesn't stack with Dual Shot and stuff.

Targren · Feb 26, 2010, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marverick

Barrage - Elite Preparation. For 0...30 seconds, you attack 33% faster, and whenever you attack a target, you fire an additional arrow at that target and up to six adjacent foes. 25e, 25 recharge.

Um HM casters need to stop casting on crack so they can actually be interrupted. Without BHA.

Lightning Reflexes should have its recharge lowered to 15s in PvE to be a more maintainable IAS. Alternatively revert Flail for PvE.

There needs to be something akin to a Scavenger's Arrow or something in the marksmanship line. Body Shot is too unwieldy.

And a lot of bow attacks are just useless.

And split Needling Shot for PvE/PvP FFS. That was a nerf that was entirely uncalled for.

Cuilan · Feb 26, 2010, 06:47 PM // 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marverick

Um HM casters need to stop casting on crack so they can actually be interrupted. Without BHA.

I hear standing right in front of the particular enemy or mob you want to interrupt with a recurve bow works in HM. Try it and tell us how it turns out.

You're better off with a necromancer if you want daze.

trankle · Feb 26, 2010, 06:54 PM // 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronSheik

My dervish has over half of my 5000 hours.

I can see you bring too many 10 energy skills without return, or can't weapon swap to a zealous when hitting three enemies. Even zealous renewal provides ample energy return with no use of attunements or radiants.

You're wasting your breath. The Josip doesn't play a Dervish:

The Josip
Profession: Me/

Gill Halendt · Feb 26, 2010, 07:03 PM // 19:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by trankle

You're wasting your breath. The Josip doesn't play a Dervish:

The Josip
Profession: Me/

Now THAT's mean...

Del · Feb 26, 2010, 07:20 PM // 19:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Josip

We can easily see you don't play Dervish.

Unless you're using Zealous Vow you're going to have energy problems as dervish. Yes, you can put few useless skills on your skillbar so you can actually use properly the other few - or - you can just stop using dervish and switch to, I dunno, A/D to do it better with no energy problems.

you obviously don't play dervish, or are too poor at it to properly create a build, but try this on for size

12 +1 +1 scythe, 6 +1 wind prayers, 11+1 mysticism

wounding strike, chilling victory, mystic sweep, wild blow, attacker's insight, heart of fury, optional enchant, res.

used properly, there's no e management issues and works in pve or pvp, mostly pvp because it pretty much shreds monks. IMO the biggest problem with dervs is the fact that no one wants to bother thinking of good builds so they just ask for buffs.

AmbientMelody · Feb 26, 2010, 07:24 PM // 19:24

Buffing Ranger is like balancing on a thin line ... do a one error (literally), and puff! immortal spikes are back! though, the bow options seem to be overshadowed by melee variants when it comes to damage (clearly not in the class utility and flexibility; bow is still the king there).

Dervish ... Dervish needs an entire class rework. He is beyond repair.

Perhaps introducing new skill type such as 'mantra' and switching many of the existing enchantment skills to mantras would help. Let's say mantra would be like a stance, one can be used at a time and they have no activation time/can be used while activating any other skills. Let's say you could keep a mantra and a stance at once too. Mysticism could then give better reward for casting or maintaining enchantments, as there would be fewer of them ... or boost the use of mantras, by giving holy damage to the Scythe when under mantra effect.

Naturally, such mantra skills would have very different functionality than the existing enchantments, to keep them more in line. Basically, more movement/attack speed/block/enchantment & hex hate when combining stances, mantras and enchantments to make him like 'enchanted' warrior, which sacrifices heavy armour for better anti-caster utility and offense. I guess that's what Dervish was originally meant to be, even if upon launch he ended up as overpowered when buffed/avatar'ised and pretty useless having his enchantments stripped.

Btw, it's just an idea ... if it inspired you feel free to copy/paste wherever you want. Before you say 'overpowered' ... look at the warrior. Idea is still an idea, it's far from actual implementation (which then can be judged as poor or too good).